Monday's open thread

   Stray thoughts?

Comments

[Protractor]

It seems now that almost every day I read of yet another helicopter full of our heroes being lost over in Iraq. Thus, I found it particularly topical to come upon an Op-Ed piece in Newsweek that flawlessly stated my current view of the situation in Iraq.

For what it's worth, this article absolutely nails my opinion:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17080793/site/newsweek/

Looking for any comments my fellow kcbuzzbloggers may have.

Thanks!!
Pro

[Jim]

I'd like to see the media bring back all of the old Bush media clips and speaches from 2001 til now. Wouldn't that be a sight! Put them all in order and play it non stop. That ought to paint one heck of a picture.

The onus is squarely on the shoulders of Congress and I doubt they'll lift a finger to stop the war for the reasons cited by Congressman Ron Paul of Texas:
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst021207.htm

Sam Brownback, who claims to have changed his mind on the war, could seize the day and be the first Senator to filibuster: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17011.htm

How much you wanna bet he won't?

[arewethereyet]

Read the piece in Newsweek. It will always be tomorrow in Bush time. The soldiers currently in theatre and soon to be deployed have no cover from this administration. The Senate allowed a cloture vote, signed with the fresh blood of soldiers, Blackwater employees and countless Iraqi victims. Now Bush ET AL are shifting around for a reason to go into Iran. Any smoke screen will do at this juncture. Tony Snow in today's briefing could not control the outrage of a finally hopping mad press corp. But Quindlen is right, this is not enough. Make a call tonight to Washington. Not expressing your outrage personally is no longer acceptable. My son (currently active duty) will appreciate any moral fortitude that you can spare.

[Protractor]

"I'd like to see the media bring back all of the old Bush media clips and speaches from 2001 til now. Wouldn't that be a sight! Put them all in order and play it non stop. That ought to paint one heck of a picture."

Jim, that was essentially done for all of us in the Michael Moore film "Fahrenheit 911." The problem is that fair or not, a lot of people don't put a great deal of stock in Moore being an unbiased source of information. Still, he used stock footage and Bush et al's own words. It would be nice to see an update that includes things that have been said since the summer of 2004.

arewethereyet, I am going to do exactly what you have asked. Not tomorrow, not next week. I am going to do it today. I live on a border between two states and will call senators for both states. Today.

The time to take a stand, no matter how politically dubious, has indeed arrived.

[arewethereyet]

Damn, my eyes are welling with tears. Some one gives a damn. Thank you on my army son's and sailor daughter's behalf.

[Protractor]

Well ain't that a kwinky dink arewehereyet? As a MUCH younger man, I joined the Army (infantry) and my sister was one of the very first female Naval OCS pleebs(sp.?) with still another sister in the Air Force. None of us did more than one hitch (Dad was a career man and we had no choice), but my family was VERY fortunate not to have the current bunch running the show back then.

I assure you...MANY people give more than a damn. Although I obviously don't know you, my thoughts are with you and your children.

God speed!

"The mentality in Washington is simple: avoid hard choices at all costs; spend money at will; ignore deficits; inflate the money supply as needed; and trust that the whole mess somehow will be taken care of by unprecedented economic growth in the future."

That sums it up pretty well.

[JC]

That last post was me, sorry.

[craig]

Pro,
Good post and good link. The only problem is that nobody seems to talk about people like me. I seperate the War in Afganastan and the War in Iraq. I believe they are being fought for very different reasons. And although I feel that both are justified, I feel that both have been grossly mismanaged. I truly respect and understand those with opinions different than mine and encourage you to contact your elected officials to let them know your thoughts. I also encourage all to send and email to a service member and let them know that no matter what your stance, you support them. arewethereyet, let your children know that there are plenty of us over here that pray everyday for their safety and are truly proud of their service and sacrifice (as well as yours).

[scorpio]

Hillary thinks our various war adventures could be handled better as well, she's making a "competence" argument, like Dukakis back when. does she think she'd kill MORE or FEWER muslims than Bush/Cheney? does she have any idea what she's talking about? i emailed the McCaskill folks in DC this weekend and so far havent heard back. the gist of my comments? "we havent heard a word out of you re Iraq or the preparations to bomb/strafe/invade Iran and widen this catastrophe. i know you're a junior Senator but that didnt stop Webb from speaking up. did i waste my time in turning out to vote against that lap dog Talent? this is not a church social or a grip-and-grin. get to work, McCaskill."

[tsquare]

Anna Quindlen thinks Hillary isn't liberal...enough.

Enough said.

[Political Moderate]

craig and Pro...
Thanks guys for the great posts regarding our warriors in harm's way...and the families they leave behind.

[Peace Marcher]

If you were able to tear yourselves away from the nonstop Anna Nicole Smith coverage, you may have noticed that in both the Libby trial and congressional hearings in DC last week, we now know for a fact that bush lied to justify the invasion of Iraq. They cooked the intelligence people! They tried to shut Joseph Wilson up by ruining his wife's career (and yes, she WAS a covert agent) and they manipulated the press to shape their story.

Where is the outrage??

When you contact your congress reps, insist that they bring our troops home and IMPEACH bush and cheney. Hold them accountable!!!

3125 US soldiers have died.

The best way to support the troops is to bring them home.

Three thousand one hundred and twenty five lives lost. For what noble cause?????

[Old Drum]

It certainly is interesting watching the twists and turns of the sainted John McCain straight-talking his way out of any chance of being President.

The Sainted One on 7/2/06
"I think Americans should be exposed to every point of view," he said. "I happen to believe in evolution. ... I respect those who think the world was created in seven days. Should it be taught as a science class? Probably not."
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20060702/NEWS/107020079

The Sainted One on 8/25/05
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/opinion/90521

Daily Star: Should intelligent design be taught in schools?
McCain: I think that there has to be all points of view presented. But they've got to be thoroughly presented. So to say that you can only teach one line of thinking I don't think is - or one belief on how people and the world was created - I think there's nothing wrong with teaching different schools of thought.
Daily Star: Does it belong in science?
McCain: There's enough scientists that believe it does. I'm not a scientist. This is something that I think all points of view should be presented.

And, on the 23rd of this month.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/12/mccain-creationism/

Yet, on February 23, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will be the keynote speaker for the most prominent creationism advocacy group in the country. The Discovery Institute, a religious right think-tank, is well-known for its strong opposition to evolutionary biology and its advocacy for “intelligent design.”

What a guy! Straight-talking his way in front of whatever the audience wants to hear.

[Peace Marcher]

"What a guy! Straight-talking his way in front of whatever the audience wants to hear."

Sounds just like Hillary. What a nightmare election that would be - McCain VS Hillary. Gag me.

[Protractor]

Peace Marcher,

I will readily admit that I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq from the very start. I remember an analogy I made at the time...something like here I am walking down the street and out pops some guy who has threatened or attacked me several times before. He murders my wife and children in front of me. In my shock and grief-driven rage, I start chasing him down the street. I'm gaining on him, but then I see this other guy I have hated for good reason for several years across the street. I stop chasing the guy who killed my family, run across the street and start beating the crap out of the guy I hate for good reason but who had nothing to do with what just happened. I kill several innocent bystanders in the process. Then, as I am finishing him off, all of his friends and the relatives of the innocents in my way come out and start kicking my ass. Then all the people who hate the people now kicking my ass come out and everything gets completely out of control with everyone fighting everyone. I am in the middle, cannot get out, have done things in my anger and my rage I will never live down and the guy who killed my family is long gone. Here it is four years later and my friends are coming out of the woodwork saying "Pretty prophetic analogy, dude." Oh...and in the middle of that analogy, several members of my extended family drowned in a flood that slowly inundated my house because I was too busy fighting to get them out in time.

Thus I readily admit that mine is anything but an objective viewpoint when it comes to my opinion that the Bushies cooked the intelligence they sold to Congress, the American people, the international community, our allies in the 'Coalition of the Willing' (which in fact was actually the media) and even their own party. In addition, I honestly don't think that gang does ANYTHING without design or intent. I will leave it to history to determine if I am correct and if such actions constitute crimes against humanity.

I may be biased, but how many times has anything this administration told us about this foray into Iraq proven to be true?

I expect the people we just put in office to stand up to this administration.

There...I have strayed far enough in this post from my message of peace, love and human understanding.

[Protractor]

I agree with both you about McCain vs. Hillary. YUCK!! I would HAVE to move to Canada and commute through the tunnel in Windsor. My employer has an office near there I could work out of.

[Peace Marcher]

Protractor, that analogy is just perfect! I may borrow it if you don't mind. I love it!!

[cmarshalldavis]

nobody cares what your opinion is, protractor

[Peace Marcher]

I care protractor. I also care about cmarshalldavis's opinion.

[Mizzou82]

Excellent analogy, Protractor.

[BeProudAmerica]

Protractor - That analogy only works for the weak minded, then ones that don't want to think for themselves. In your analogy, you failed to mention that the guy that killed your family is in the same 'gang' as the guy that you have disliked for so long.

And yet again, it is just one person that killed your family in your analogy, is a team or gang of people which we have limited their ability to attack back and captured a number of them. So NO we have not stopped chasing the attacker.

It is more than just disliking the second person (Iraq). If you think there are no ties between the past Iraq and Al Qaeda, you are fooling yourselfs. Are there as many connections between them as the government tells us, I don't know, but to say there are none is just wrong.

Protractor and Peace Marcher - I am assuming you were out and have been out demonstrating against the conviction of Saddam Hussein. When you do that, then I will consider your postings more, but for now you are just throwing up hollow arguments, trying to be on both sides of the fence.

[Mizzou82]

We are not fooling "ourselfs".

[BeProudAmerica]

oops... ourselves.